[wdmmg-discuss] a good e.g. of obtaining council accounts

[Lisa Evans]

And you can question if the really mean to apply section 41 rather than 
43, as 41 is more for protection of a person (including another public 
authority), not a big company like Oracle.

On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Lisa Evans wrote:

> They did the old trick of using section 41 and saying:
>
> "the Oracle Applications database schema is provided to the Council in 
> confidence by the Oracle Corporation and the disclosure of that information 
> is likely to result in an actionable breach of confidence."
>
> Have they checked with the supplier? Is it specifically written into the 
> contract? You could ask for an internal review on this.
>
> If you do this then point to the ICOs guidance on applying the S.43(2) 
> exemption.
>
> The council should have provided evidence that the supplier consider the 
> release of the information would be prejudicial to their commercial 
> interests. The ICOs guidance clearly states:
>
> " The public authority must not speculate as to whether there is
> any commercial detriment and the reasons why without any evidence
> or input from the third party."
>
> http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/detailed_specialist_guides/commercialdetrimentof3rdparties.pdf
>
> As such I would ask for evidence that the Council have either:
>
> * been in touch with the supplier specifically with respect to this
>   request;
>
> or
>
> * provide a relevant excerpt from the contract between the authority and
>   supplier which makes clear the information being sought would be
>   commercially detrimental if released.
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Richard Pope wrote:
>
>>  I had this reply form Lambeth today (which I haven't fully read through
>>  yet):
>>
>>  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/training_materialsdocumentation#incoming-90833
>>
>>  They denied access to the database schema but provided their training
>>  manuals. I could do with some help drafting the final request if
>>  anyone feels so inclined?
>>
>>  Richard
>>
>>  On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Lisa Evans <lisa.evans at okfn.org> wrote:
>> >  I'm meeting with 2 people from Cambridgeshire County Council tomorrow, 
>> >  to
>> >  talk about their accounting data and what they can share with us.
>> > 
>> >  If you have any questions then I'll ask for you -- just let me know.
>> > 
>> >  Here's some background on the accounting system they have at Cams County
>> >  Council.
>> > 
>> >  I found out the database used to store the council's accounts is a 
>> >  Fujitsu
>> >  Oracle system. Oracle Applications is on version 11.5.10.2 and the 
>> >  database
>> >  version is 10.2.0.3.0. I got this from here:
>> >  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/databases_used_to_store_county_c#incoming-82248
>> > 
>> >  I've got some of the accounts database schema information:
>> >  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/schema_for_the_fujitsu_oracle_da#incoming-82932
>> > 
>> >  I've got some idea of which tables are important:
>> >  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_from_the_fujitsu_oracle_dat#comment-11028
>> > 
>> >  I have the training notes for using the accounting database:
>> >  http://www.archive.org/details/CambridgeshireCountyCouncilAccountsDatabaseTrainingMaterials
>> > 
>> >  That's all for now,
>> > 
>> >  Lisa
>> > 
>> >  On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Lisa Evans wrote:
>> > 
>> > >  I've mentioned before on this mailing list that I've been requesting
>> > >  details of a few different council's accounts.
>> > > 
>> > >  My best result so far has been with Cambridgeshire County Council, as 
>> > >  you
>> > >  can see here:
>> > > 
>> > >  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_from_the_fujitsu_oracle_dat
>> > > 
>> > >  Mostly this is because I've been lucky to meet Andy on 'What do they
>> > >  know', who knows the account database tables well.
>> > > 
>> > >  So, I've got a meeting at Cambridgeshire county council to discuss the
>> > >  data we want -- this gives me a chance to show the wdmmg 
>> > >  visualisations and
>> > >  explain the project.
>> > > 
>> > >  Let me know if you have suggestions for what to ask.  I should be 
>> > >  meeting
>> > >  them with Andy, hopefully this Wednesday, and I'll keep you posted on 
>> > >  how
>> > >  this goes.
>> > > 
>> > >  Lisa
>> > > 
>> > > 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>