[wsfii-discuss] ... take the lead

Thu Jun 14 09:19:39 UTC 2007

hi Gerard

no. i do not agree. i admit you offer the most pragmatic way and i guess
u will agree we may call it "meritocracy". that may suit everybody who
believes to be meritted. i am realistic enough to see that in abscence
of alternative structures we once more have to go that "way of the minor
disorder". but i totally agree with Ian in so far: in self-organisation
as a process of real equal rights and solidarity, as a matter of real
co-operation, we have a great value and a challange to face.

concerning this "someone has to take the lead" i have another comment:
 to lead doesnt automatically means someONE have to do it. i think we
all should improve in critically reflecting our merits and those of
others, that we may achieve a process within everybody is leading and
teaching as she/he is learning according to the added output of our all
best knowledge. this is not a fairy tale, as I experienced that in
variuos ways ...

you are talking about the future as it is something to preserve. we live
in a world filled up with preservation, precautions, insurance and stuff
- yet we are going to destroy it and fail to stop exploiting, oppressing
and killing each other - how come? maybe its because of the very
limmited number of persons to contribute in the configuration of our world?

greetings, marco, berlin

Fred Pook schrieb:
> Cheers Gerard!
> Totally agree with you, and yes I will also take a beer ...
> maybe self-reflection and communication is all that is needed in our
> open-source way of working and if that can get some more speed by an
> enlightened lead taking person.. hmm
> Greets Fred
>
>
> On 6/13/07, Gerard Mourits <gerard at mourits.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:44:54 -0400, "Ian Howard"
>> <ihoward at netdotworking.com> said:
>> > All,
>> >
>> > Not to be a thorn, but I would encourage us not to lose site of the
>> > original ideals of WSFII, that is an open, collaborative and
>> > self-organizing endeavour, modelled around open source. In that
>> light, I
>> > would suggest that we not appoint someone to be in charge, but that we
>> > encourage some individuals to focus their contributions on particular
>> > aspects of this effort. If anything we should certainly focus on
>> making
>> > sure that we really encourage some local on the ground people to do
>> > participate more. Leaders in open source pull things together and
>> > encourage participation of others.
>> >
>> Nice words but are they really of this world?
>> I think Fred meant by his 'putting in charge' that if work is to be done
>> somebody has to take the lead.
>> If nobody takes the lead and there is nobody 'in charge' then where are
>> we going to.
>> This don't mean that we need a kind of Hitler to marched in front of the
>> troops.
>> We would certainly let this happen at all. Bu we need en lighted people
>> that shows us the road ahead.
>> 'Self-organizing endeavour' come out of books and with books we describe
>> thing that passed.
>>
>> > So, to answer Tomas' questions:
>> >
>> > So who take the lead?  No one, this is a self-organizing effort
>> And out of this self-organizing effort comes what ? a leader?
>>
>> > When do we organize?  again, self-organize
>> And what happens if we got two self-organizing mechanisms?
>>
>> > When the first meeting to assess situation, offers and plan?  there
>> > should be an effort to encourage contributions and a wide call for
>> input
>> > and distributed decision making.
>> At first we need a direction: where are we going ?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyone who knows me will know that this self-organizing arrangement is
>> > not one that came naturally for this ex-soldier, though, I believe in
>> > open source and I believe that if we buy-in to the process of
>> > self-organization and that we work to optimize collaboration that this
>> > will be something fruitful. Not only will we pull off a meeting,
>> but we
>> > will pull off another self-organizing event.
>> The problem is with self-organizing communities that there has to be
>> someone to point out to this direction (and take the lead).
>> It is not "if this" or "if that". It is "and this" "and that" and work
>> together on multiple levels.
>> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/714
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> Cheers to you! I'll now take a beer.
>>
>> Gerard
>> >
>> > Ian
>> >
>> >
>> > Fred Pook wrote:
>> > > Hiya,
>> > > I am happy this thread is picking up and we are chatting..
>> > > IMHO I would put Ashish in charge of this effort of making the WSFII
>> > > online presence a solid one.
>> > > Please reply if there are objections to this
>> > >
>> > > Thanks Fred
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 6/5/07, Thomas Maketa <tmaketa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> So who take the lead ?
>> > >> When do we organize?
>> > >> When the first meeting to assess situation, offers and plan?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 6/5/07, Rob Dyke < rob at comwifinet.com> wrote:
>> > >> > Ashish, All,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Here is my offer of contributing time and effort for the critical
>> > >> > infrastructure side of things. I've much kit and much
>> caboodle, *some*
>> > >> > time... All donated towards WSFII.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Looks like there are a couple of things immediately arising
>> from this
>> > >> > thread....
>> > >> > * Web presence overhaul - tool and template
>> > >> > * Import of OKFN hosted info
>> > >> > * Support for translations
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I'm lurking with Saul in IRC.... let's continue this thread and
>> > >> chatter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Rob
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Saul Albert wrote:
>> > >> > > On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 10:39:15AM +0530, Assoc of Public
>> ICT Tools
>> > >> Access Prov wrote:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >>    Henceforth can we think of building a team of say 3 people
>> > >> for the
>> > >> > >>    critical infrastructure ?  like the web site  & events.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I'm afraid I can't help out with infrastructure... but as I
>> said,
>> > >> I'd
>> > >> > > be *really* happy to contribute reports and updates from
>> London...
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I'd like to remind you all about the wsfii irc channel which
>> has
>> > >> been
>> > >> > > dead for a while - but could help if people are feeling
>> isolated
>> > >> in the
>> > >> > > way they're working ;)
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > irc://irc.oftc.net#wsfii
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > See you there maybe?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I'll be idling there this morning, but I read scrollback :)
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > X
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Saul.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
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>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
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